A few years ago, I was in my mid thirties and was ripping the mountain.
I remember that I could ski quick turns in tight trees, jump off (small) cliffs, rip throught moguls…
THIS IS WHAT TELELAMRK IS ALL ABOUT.
But in the last 4-5 years, I’ve considerably slowed down. I don’t get the same feeling, the same ripping feeling.
I’ve done a series about the telemark ski evolution and it made me realized that telemark is a feeling and what ever the era of equipement, it remains FUN
But this latest generation of ALL MOUNTAIN SKIS just doesn’t seem to work for me.
Or did I just get older?
Are alpine skiers just getting better and I can’t keep up anymore?
Is it me or the equipment?
This descent in my confidence to ski all terrain, rip and turn heads started when I tried the Black Diamond Helio 95mm in 2018. I choose a smaller size at 173cm instead of the 178cm I’m usually going for.
I have a friend who had the Helio 105 in a shorter lenght and he liked it a lot, praising the small size to manoeuvre in tight trees.
Well the Helio 95mm in a short size didn’t work. At all.
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For general information on ski selectrion I have wrote a blog on the subject here.
This blog will only be covering problems for resort oriented all around, all mountain ski in this blog.
Fat skis used for powder do not suffer from those issues.
These are my evolving thoughts as of March 2022.
This is the story of my quest to find the best All Mountain Telemark ski.
Note: I have a prodeal with Black Diamond Equipment like most industry professional. I can have prodeals with most ski manufacturers but I’ve been skiing BD for 14 years because they serve me well. I still pay for most of my skis.
This is my story, my skis, the thoughts shared here are mine and reflects my experience:
Skier: Rene-Martin
Year telemark skiing: 26
Weight: 200 pounds
Height: 6.1 ft
Days on snow: 100 days a year (around 60 resort skiing, 40 backcountry)
My Experience with ski brands and testing.
First, I’ve been telemark skiing for a 25+ years.
I’ve tried hundreds of skis over the years.
Some years, around 2004-2006,when telemark was at it’s peak of popularity, I would even go at test events to review telemark skis for specialized magasine.
Nowadays, telemark demos are hard to find.
But I work as a ski patroller at Le Massif where about 20 of us are on telemark.
So even in recent years, I’ve tried a lot of different setup.
Atomic, Volk, Rossignol, Nordica, Blizzard, Salomon, Moment, Dynastar, Armada, Xalibu at almost all Black Diamond skis in the last 14 years…
Even with all this testing, I don’t consider myself a great tester. It takes me some time to identify what works in a ski or a binding.
With years, I’ve become better and better at identifying what works and what doesn’t.
THE QUEST
I’ve been looking for a ski that works for telemark in the 85-95mm range. That’s the width of the ski under foot.
Most skis under 90mm are just too stiff and mainly aimed at carving. The industry calls them all mountain skis or front side skis, but really it’s meant to ski 75% on groomers and occasional powder, chopped powder. No moguls, no eastern tree skiing where there’s always bumps, powder or chopper powder
Most 90 to 95mm skis are oriented for light touring. Those skis like the BD Helio 95mm not only have gone stiffer and stiffer but this combined with the lightess makes the skis very unstable for the variaty of snow a resort have. It’s just not damp enought.
There are skis that works but in general, for me at least, I have not found a perfect all mountain telemark skis for a LONG time.
And it made me think, what is the greatest all around telemark ski I’ve ever tried?
In 2021-2022, I have:
- a slalom ski at 65mm (165cm long) mounted on NTN freeride
- a GS ski at 63mm, 170cm on freeride
- a BD Impulse 98mm, 180cm on a Meidjo 3 with alpine heelset
- A BD Helio at 115mm, 186cm on a meidjo 3 with alpine heelset (I use it only to guide in BC)
Here are the PROBLEMS with modern MID FAT skis
1. Shallow Rise Tip
Problem: the spatulla doesn’t rise enough. Note: Fat skis used for powder do not suffer from this issue.
In 2018, I thought that the small size combined with the tip rocker of the Helio 95 was the problem.
The tip rocker problem was easily identified. The tip only lifted a few cm of the ground and the telemark squat would frequently make the tip dive in a bump.
I could make it work but I needed to keep my telemark lead change VERY small. Like less than a boot long. And I needed to be very active to get the skis to manoeuvre around moguls. It was a nightmare.
So I sold the ski to a smaller skier and thought that was that. Well over the years, I’ve realized that there is actually 4 shape changes that have impered our ability to telemark on modern all-mountain shape.
My Quest was only starting.
2. Stiffer Tip
Problem: stiff tip combined with a shallow rised tip makes the tip catch in bumps. Note: Fat skis used for powder do not suffer from this issue.
The next year, I went for a narrower ski, the Black Diamond Route 88. I picked them the right lenght at 178cm.
I moved away from carbon as I realized that it was too light for resort skiing and also that it was just too stiff.
This solved the tip diving problem, ouf!
But even if the ski was ok in moguls, ok on groomers, ok in powder, I still wasn’t ripping like before. For the story, the last ski that BD made that worked for my was the Aspect that was produce in 2014-15. After that the Link, the Helio, the Route all had the same problem.
Stiffer and stiffer tip mixed with a shallow rise tip really kills the energy tranfered to the back ski in a telemark turn.
See how low the tip is barely off the ground.
You have to think of the back ski as a second point of balance. When turning, we are puitting our skis on edge. On the front ski, our weight is distributed on the whole edge of the ski. It’s centered.
On the back ski, using any modern active binding, our energy is more transfered half way between the center and the tip. We can even see my back ski lifted of the snow in this image.
Now if the spatula doesn’t rise a lot or if it’s too stiff, it will catch a lot more into things.
But there is more!
3. Rockered Tip
Problem: the ski has no energy to give back to the skier. Note: Fat skis used for powder do not suffer from this issue.
Again, telemark skiing, we transfer half way between the center and the tip of the back ski by the boot-binding combo. If it’s too rockered, the energy is lost in the ski shape. Tradional shaped skis have camber to give energy to the ski. When pushed, it wants to come back into it’s original shape. With a tapered tip, we are pushing the ski into it’s designed shape, just making it rounder, and the ski is not going to give any energy back.
4. Tapered Tip
Problem, the shape of the tip changes the radius of the turn on the back ski. Note: Fat skis used for powder do not suffer from those issues.
The final factor is the tapered tip. This is when the max wigth of the ski is not at the top of the spatula. On hard pack snow, this changes the way the arch of the edge conduct the ski. It’s like if your back ski had a big belly.
Basically, they move the widest part of the ski toward the center. This has many advantages. It reduces mass at the tip, thus reducing swing weight, it creates a shorter turn radius without a super large tip that becomes bulky and clumky. But for our back ski while telemarking, it reduces grip and edge control. A bit of tapered tip is not a problem, but laterly, ski company have increased it on some models to become a problem.
And these 4 problems are not exclusive to Black Diamond. In the last 5 years, almost all brands are going in this direction
There is worst.
This is not working for telemark inbound as an all around ski. If you are like me and ski moguls, tress, powder, groomers, ice, this shallow tip rise and stiff tip is just deadly, rocker and tapered tip definetly doesn’t help. I found that this is NOT a problem for fat skis aimed at powder.
But why are the manufacturers going for those kind of shapes then?
You have to understand it works of the alpine turn. It works really good.
It took me a while to understand that.
THE SKI I WAS WANTING FOR
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Salut Rene Martin,
First of thanks for all your info and insight into your tele experience!
I started telemark skiing this winter, while being an avid alpine skier, snowboarder and work in a skishop, i’m new to telemark and i love it.
In december i bought a used K2 superstinx in 174cm with a g3 targa and a BD push boot. in january the binding exploded on me. so i bought a AXL and found a fantastic deal on a Salomon MTN explore 88 in a ridiculously long 185cm (i’m 176cm). But i compared the effective length that touches the snow (camber part) and it was almost the same on the K2 and the Salomon. I installed the binding boot center -2cm. The salomon has some of nose rocker, and i must admit that i’m really happy with the mix on piste it’s fun on low and high speed, moguls, i’m not yet that confident, but in general on difficult slopes and in the steeps it worked really well.
But when i went into the powder, i was so surprised and happy. Had some first tracks in Jacques Cartier and the additional length with the rocker helped me to keep the tip afloat but i still felt nimble enough to go through the trees. What a feeling!
I hope to be able to go to Massif next winter, at least in touring mode, so i won’t have to sell a kidney;-)
Cheers from Québec, Bruno
Thanks for thoses advices
If you have some european skis to suggest, i am interested (bishop will be difficult to find in france)
I am skiing blizzard bonafide at the moment
Hi,
I did a few days of telemark skiing at lake Louise and really enjoyed it. After being away in England for a decade I’m wanting to get back into alpine telemarking locally (eastern Ontario). I’m really struggling to find a distributor that sales telemark boots and bindings. Any suggestions?
Thanks Doug
Hello Rene, I’ve also skied hard most of my life: born 1 mi from small chairlift, on skis at 3, racing slalom/GS through high school, then started bc touring on telemark skis circa 2002. I went through a similar ‘I just want one ski’ crisis while BC touring colorado front range in 2006. I purchased a pair of ‘graphic defect’ telemark insert 183cm Voile Insanes in 2007, and they just won’t die! I skied these in any kind of conditions, everywhere, over a decade, and they always delivered adaptable, un-flappable performance and fun. (14K peaks in Colorado, deep forest facet fields, Icy, dark GS race course, slaying spring alpine corn, even improvised skate skiing with an old girlfriend)…Many years ago I considered replacing the Insanes with Chargers, but when I demo-ed a pair, Voile was also going through the specialized floating rocker trend, and frankly – they sucked. More recently, Voile has rebounded with more tip camber, etc. If I were to replace my 07 Insane’s today, I would purchase Voile Hyper Charger – which is too wide for your mogul/piste needs, so the slimmer version is the Hyper vector (96-98 waist). No skiing experience will compare to porpise-like telemark skiing in deep powder -it’s like dancing, flight, swimming, and sex all at the same time. While I used to be driven by hunting for powder, I became more and more satisfied with and fond of simply getting out and moving in the backcountry, & spring time mountaineering. I had a new boot crisis back in the 20-teens – how could I purchase new telemark gear with 30degrees less ankle walking freedom, while adding 10lb to my hiking feet? Now my ski anywhere skis are 156cm Fishcer transalp 88’s with atomic backland tech bindings (telemark taught me how to stay centered, so I get away with shorties) My wife’s skis are Salomon MTN explore 88…I still keep a pair of gigantic Voile Asylums with BD wedge cable bindings & Garmont syner-g boots for the rare tele-powder-porpoise lift opportunity….I suppose I’m now a skiing optimist, because I live in southern appalachia…to get my fix I’ll need to board an airplane with a swimming pool, and carnal dance beats.
Elan Ripstick 96??
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